Wounded healers (a.k.a the Chiron archetype) desire to help heal others because they have experienced deep traumatic experiences themselves. Tesa Baum’s guest is Lisa Tahir, a wonderful author endorsed by none other than His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama. Lisa and Tesa discuss how we should understand our inner Chiron and how we should give that wounded part of ourselves the love, attention, and gentleness it needs instead of our judgment. Because if we’re not caring and forgiving towards ourselves, we’ll find it difficult to be caring and forgiving towards someone else. Join in the conversation and learn more about the concept of time and age, why we need to share our vulnerability with others, and how the most important time we have is our current lifetime.

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The Chiron Effect: Deep Healing For All

In this episode, I’m going to be speaking with Lisa Tahir. She is the Founder of Psychoastrology and the Author of The Chiron Effect: Healing Our Core Wounds through Astrology, Empathy, and Self-Forgiveness, which has been endorsed by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. Lisa is passionately committed to supporting as many people as possible on their journey of healing their emotional wounds and living a fully empowered life. Using her podcast All Things Therapy as a platform to change consciousness one conversation at a time, she helps people remodel their beliefs at the level of cause, which is thought-centered.

She accompanies them on their journey to wholeness as an accountability partner. Her guests include Marianne Williamson, John Gray, Katherine Woodward Thomas, Alan Weiss and others. As a licensed clinical social worker for many years, an inventor with a US patent, certified thought coach, EMDR practitioner and Reiki practitioner, she has private practices both in New Orleans, Louisiana and Los Angeles. She loves speaking on the methods she’s developed in her book. I’m excited for you to read about her.

Tesa, I’m doing very well. I appreciate you having me on your show.

It’s such an honor. Thank you. I’m looking forward to knowing your story and to chatting with you. I know we discussed the theme of the show. Do you have an impactful zig-zag story that you would like to share?

I do. As I was reflecting on the theme of your show and in meditation, it came up for me. One of the zig-zags of life that affect all of us at some point and maybe even multiple times throughout our lifespan having to do, as I’ve been conceptualizing it, making peace with and then fill in the blank. For me, what’s been coming up is the concept of time and age, when we reach certain milestone birthdays, that we have a whole set of baggage around them. Whether it’s 30, 40 or 50, whatever it might be for you that our culture that there’s a lot out there about what those ages mean.

For me, approaching 50, I’ve been sitting with that and in meditation, asking the universe. I don’t want to feel upset by this but for some reason, I am. It’s all this baggage I’ve been told by others, nothing I believe within myself truly about age and time being constructs that don’t exist in the quantum field that truly don’t exist. We make them up so we can have business and order to our lives. This concept of making peace with time has been important to me as a zig-zag and has come up. I know I was talking to a friend who said she was fine turning 50 but it was turning 40 that was a challenge.

I offered to our readers, taking time to make peace with their age if that’s an issue, make peace with the unfolding of time and how it’s what we do with it that matters that we are ageless and timeless. We are eternal. I’ve been trying to tap into that. It’s how we care for ourselves, the things we consume, be it in our mind, our TV, our music. All of that is consumption and it shows on us. That’s what I’d have to offer. I wonder what you think about that.

I turned 50 in February 2021. I can relate. I wasn’t looking forward to it either but then once you land on it, you’re like, “I’m here.” It is what it is at this point because I agree with you. I believe in endless consciousness. That is the theme of my passion. Talking about it and understanding how large our consciousness is and how much we’ve experienced in this lifetime and past lifetimes. Who knows what our future is going to be? I do feel that the box of that number, once you embody it, it’s very powerful. Now, I am who I am.

You take it or leave it. I have nothing to prove anymore. I am happy with the lessons that I’ve learned, even the struggle, even those wounds at times. That brings me to a lot of the questions I have for you and your work. Sometimes life has gotten hard over the years. I feel that’s all part of it and it gives us more of a perspective. I love what you’re saying but anything that came is coming to you now since you’re a few months behind me. I find this to be an interesting idea, that feeling of running away from it like not wanting to face something.

I’m still in the midst of it because I turn 50 in a couple of months. This has been on top of my list of wanting to make peace and conceptualize what this age means for me. One of the things that came up was that I’d done so much work to heal my childhood wounds and feel free in ways I haven’t. That ties into the book that I wrote about Healing Our Core Wounds through Astrology, Empathy, and Self-Forgiveness. All this is fresh for me.

ZZL S2 5 | Wounded Healers
The Chiron Effect: Healing Our Core Wounds through Astrology, Empathy, and Self-Forgiveness

Can you tell me about your work and book?

I wrote this book for people like me who might feel frustrated with telling your story of what happened in the past. I’ve been a therapist for over twenty years. It is important to do the deep healing work, especially when there’s been trauma like sexual abuse, violence, abandonment and deep wounds. There is the time needed to go back to that with someone that can be there witnessing you hand in hand, going through that journey with you. I found that in my own process of healing from some of those wounds that I kept going back to the old story.

After many years, I was like, “Universe, what’s the new story?” I’m familiar with where I was. I want to identify with where I’m going and what that looks like because I noticed I spent more time looking back then in the now and ahead, which is where our power is like, “What can I do now? What do I want to believe now to be true for me?” I wrote this book to help us get on that path more efficiently and easily on the life that we want to create from wherever we are in this moment.

I love your work and how it’s getting intimate with this. It’s all about feeling it. We could avoid it. We have to feel it. A lot of the work I’ve been doing in 2021, I’ve been a past life regression therapist for a long time. In 2021, I’ve been doing Akashic Field healing. Like mentioning trauma, we do go into the core trauma, core fear and core beliefs in the Akashic Field. I would love to hear what you have to say about the Akashic Field if you’re familiar with it. In Sanskrit, it means aether. It is a book of knowledge from all of our lives even our future lives. Whatever emotion, feeling or thought, it’d stored somewhere. It doesn’t disappear.

It’s intense. Even though time has passed, it isn’t away from us. It’s always in our way. It’s blocking us. Once we’re aware of what that is, a lot of times we’re repeating these patterns. I feel a lot of people are stemming from traumas that have happened in this life. Most likely, it’s happening in this life, so you can work out some karmic issues. When we go back to another life, now you can understand it because it’s not the same story. There are many different stories with the same theme. Once we can look at a feeling in a new light then it’s not as powerful and hurtful because you’re like, “Everything is pretty much aethereal. Everything could evaporate once we’re aware of it.” The struggles that we have seem surreal but we have created them in order to grow. We were the ones that put forth what our life journey would be when we passed away in the last life or the life before. We have created all of this for ourselves. It takes us out of victim mode.

I’m thinking as you’re talking because I’ve thought a lot about that like our past lives intersect our current life. For me, where I stand in my work and where I feel strong is that, the most important life we’re living is right now. I’m a big believer in creating our being deliberate creators of our lives based on the consciousness we have now and aligning with source energy, whatever you believe to be true. I know not every reader might have a spiritual perspective. They might find that connection in nature or through science. I invite even readers to apply their belief system. I want to help you develop your own belief system and something that has meaning and value for you.

For me, what has meaning and value is that this life that I’m in is the very most important one to understand my patterns and align with the solution to the perceived problems that I’ve thought of and then created through repetitive thought, which becomes our belief system. From our belief system, we act in certain ways or we don’t act in certain ways. That’s what I call the Chiron Effect. It’s the orbit we have of certain people, places and things that are our habitual frequency based upon how we live each day. We tend to have a routine like a Monday through Friday routine, maybe a slightly different weekend routine. It’s through understanding what we believe to be true for ourselves and then starting to play with that and change it is how I believe we become our happiest selves.

There are lots of theories out there in terms of parallel lives. Time is not what we think it is. When I mentioned past lives, it’s all happening simultaneously. The old way of saying it is past lives but it still experiences, feelings. It is going into that dream-like state to pull things out. That’s why I have moved into the Akashic Fields more because it is what’s happening. Many people come into past life regression pretty much to live out a fantasy. They want their ego to be a queen in a past life. I feel it all out there and not effective and helpful in the here and now. I agree with you. We are living now in this life firmly in the ground, connecting with nature and feeling more alive. I am very interested in what you have to say about orbit. I love this talk. I do feel we come into this world and we come across people that are our soul family. We’re here to live out karmic experiences. We’re here to help each other. Even your enemy is here to help and teach you.

You usually grow the most from those harder experiences and people that challenge us for sure.

Also learning through it, understanding what the message is and understanding what this was here for. A lot of times, we experience something and we do feel like a victim to it. We don’t understand why this was showing up in our life. That’s when we get triggered and emotionally, we get stuck.

[bctt tweet=”It’s important to do deep healing work, especially when there’s been trauma like sexual abuse, violence, and abandonment.” via=”no”]

Chiron speaks to that very explicitly. Chiron is astronomy, a minor planet/comet found in between the planets of Saturn and Uranus discovered in 1977 to have an odd elliptical orbit. That was the first of the centaur class. That was significant because Chiron, in Greek mythology, was a centaur. He’s the founding father of the Healing Arts of the Botany and of Pharmacy. He tutored people like Asclepius and the staff of medicine with the snakes is the staff of Asclepius given to him by Chiron.

I vaguely knew about Chiron. When this first came to me in meditation many years ago to write about the wounded healer archetype. I knew about from Carl Jung’s work where he talks about in our collective unconscious, there’s this wounded healer archetype. I didn’t know a lot about it but the more I started to research and felt led to look more and start turning over more rocks about this. At first, it was a fleeting thought. Most of us, when we’re given an idea, it might start as a peak interest, that curiosity. I encourage readers to follow thoroughly through those sparks of imagination of thought that you have because it could lead to something awesome for you like it did for me.

I’m glad that I didn’t poo-poo it away and leave it at my first Google search. What I learned about Chiron is that it’s also placement in our astrological charts. I come from a psychotherapeutic background of over twenty years as a therapist. I’m grounded in psychology and spirituality. I do see astrology as a symbolic language. I believe in free will that whatever chart we’re born with that I believe we can transcend those placements. They will be having awareness and doing the deep healing that might require some of the changes. When I saw Chiron identifying 1 of 12 core woundings that are on a spectrum, core wounding being the most painful and severe. It goes down to vulnerabilities. These are areas of vulnerability that we feel like we want to hide or edit from other people.

We fear we might be judged if others knew that we’re insecure about the money we make, our body or we don’t want to let somebody know the way we were abandoned in childhood because maybe they judge our family. These are areas that we protect and edit. Even sometimes, we don’t even want to face ourselves. They go underground in the shadows. Whenever that happens, stuff comes out sideways and often in ways that might sabotage us even. By understanding our Chiron, the wound of Chiron, this is the part of ourselves that needs our most love, attention, kindness and gentleness instead of our judgment.

For each experience that happens when you do get triggered, you then help people identify what that wound is and where you see it on the chart. How does it move the energy? How are you able to pull out the story and then help the energy move? I find this to be insightful.

Usually, when someone comes to me, I start right where they are because it’s important. When a client comes to me, I want them to feel heard and us to have a connection instead of me imposing this system that I’ve discovered to be very accurate and true. It’s always important to start right where you are and, at the appropriate time, weave in. It sounds crazy but based on your date of birth, time of birth and place of birth, I have an interactive website that generates where Chiron is in your birth chart and it’s been 100% accurate with every person. It’s markable, revealing this area of vulnerability to make it more personal.

It’s key. I love the way you’re saying that there is a system to it but then intuitively, it starts to weave in because everyone’s experiences are different. It is very personalized but then there’s a structure to it. My Chiron is in Aries. I had a conversation with one of my friends who is an astrologer. She’s also a dancer. You feel the movement when we chat pretty much. She and I had a conversation because this was something that I was interested in because of you. Ironically, she happens to be starting to dive into this as well. I was blown away because I have done so much work over the years and there are many tools that we have. Each program that we dive into has its merits and it’s helpful. I love getting to the details of things. I love helping a little bit deeper. When you can see things from a new perspective, you don’t even know necessarily where your wound is.

I’ve been a therapist for many years. People come in often and feeling like they’re messed up. I always like to tell you, “You’re not messed up. You’ve learned some patterns that aren’t serving you at this moment. You feel that confusion because you’re ready to make some changes.” It helps to know the main area or source. It’s been called different things. Freud called it The Repetition Compulsion in 1914, object relations, talk about repeating unconscious patterns. Erik Erikson, the founder of psychosocial development, talked about the unconscious and our relationships dictate our adult relationships.

It has been said in many different ways. This is the first time that the core wound is tied to identifying it with some accuracy and clarity. With you, Chiron in Aries has to do with a core wounding and one’s sense of value and worth. That looks like no matter how much success you achieve and even how well you’ve done in life, there’s a part of you that might feel like it’s just not good enough. It’s been that performance-based achievement driving.

What I was getting from experience is that feeling of you have to keep on going like running fast or an overachiever. My husband and I were having this conversation about the extrovert and the introvert with our kids after this experience. I’m like, “There’s something to this too.” It’s that feeling of going within helps, when you’re feeling calmer, being in a meditative state or settling into yourself. If we go, that’s manic.

ZZL S2 5 | Wounded Healers
Wounded Healers: Make peace with your age, with the unfolding of time, and how it’s really what we do with it. What matters is that we are ageless and timeless. We are eternal.


You complete yourself. Meeting the needs of others and things because you love being of service. You love making things better. That’s such a beautiful trait, yet for the Chiron in Aries individual, you tend to over-perform and overwork. Your own love tank is empty. That’s where you can feel edgy and become self-critical then and feel like you’re not doing it right or, “What’s wrong with me?” There’s nothing wrong and you’re not doing it wrong. It’s about stepping back and deciding what works for you to do versus to be and learning to receive. For this person, Chiron in Aries, with the core wounding, value and worth, it’s about learning how life wants to give to you. Also, people want to give to you and maybe refraining from taking action so that it allows others to take some action and give to you. Have you found that to be true?

Intuitively, that is the way I’ve been working. I have been much more I don’t want to even say reserved but I even trust that the right things will fall into place. I used to be in sales and it was hard. I had a miscarriage because I was physically working so hard and I crashed. That was in my 30s. I’m like, “I can’t do this anymore. I don’t ever want to be in that role anymore of go.” You’re accurate. You’re nailing it. You feel heard when somebody is identifying something and you feel safe too because people don’t like to talk about their vulnerabilities.

Yet it’s important because we all have them since we’re human. How healing it is to witness others and to be witnessed. I talk about that in my book that it’s important that we do share our vulnerabilities with people we can trust and be authentic because everyone has an area of vulnerability, a wounding. If you’ve lived any life, you felt or been abandoned or neglected. Those are some of the other placements of Chiron, how to cope and deal with things that happen in our lives that might feel and be unexpected. That though we have one main area of vulnerability, that all of the areas I know I’ve experienced. In writing the book, I felt like I had to feel every placement of Chiron. It was hard writing for 3.5 years about wounding and vulnerability.

I felt disempowered. I suddenly realized when we’re wounded, we do feel disempowered. We feel victimized. It’s about how do we transform the experience of victimization into empowerment. It’s through being authentically vulnerable, sharing that with others, loving ourselves there with that empathy and forgiving ourselves for some of the choices we made. I do believe all of us are doing the best we can with what we know.

When you feel someone is putting up a facade like a hard exterior, I love the softness of people. There are certain people that still want to say perfect and appear to be perfect. I feel like the world is changing so much that everything is transparent. We can’t be that way anymore. We all can see through that facade. We have to be our authentic selves. The world is calling us all to be ourselves. It used to be a scary place but I do feel it’s changing to support this.

The pandemic brought that to light for us on a global scale. I can more accurately speak to in the US since I’ve lived here but the authenticity, we had to get real with ourselves about how to figure this out.

The feeling of, “I have to do this because it will be better for me in the future.” It’s okay to say no. I know it’s like you want to connect with certain people because it’ll be better for your business or that whole idea of social climbing. You have to be friends with the popular person so you could fit in. That whole paradigm doesn’t work anymore. I don’t think it’s going to support it anymore. We have to be in here now and doing something because we truly are enjoying it. I find that to be another idea that is important.

That becomes easier for us to do when we understand where we feel vulnerable, where we’re triggered and learning how to forgive ourselves progressively. Over time it helps us to progressively forgive others, which is the other side of the coin by invite readers to start with you. If you’re not caring for yourself, if you’re not coping in healthy ways and self-soothing, you’re going to be operating at a lower level. The expectation to forgive someone else when you harbor many layers of judgment towards yourself isn’t realistic. Start with deeply loving and forgiving you. It could be even on a daily basis. Sometimes when I lay in bed, when I looked through my day, even saying that, “I forgive myself for expecting so much of me.” It can feel good and soothing to let yourself off the hook. It doesn’t even have to be super-specific.

The whole idea of judgment, I’ve been noticing that I’m not as judgmental anymore with others, which helps me not be judgmental with myself. Not everyone is your cup of tea. Not everyone’s going to jive with you. We’re not always vibing together and that’s okay. It’s more of that feeling of, “They’re doing it the wrong way.” They’re not doing it the wrong way. They’re doing it their way. Let’s not worry about everybody else. Let’s not support sharing opposing viewpoints all the time anymore. Social media is crazed with putting the finger with the other end, that whole polarized way of being. It seems extreme, so we can heal. We have to move away from this way of being.

It’s not sustainable.

You live in New Orleans. I read about your background. What have you been doing in California? I saw you wrote about something.

[bctt tweet=”The most important life we’re living is right now.” via=”no”]

I was born and raised in New Orleans. I know you went to Tulane University here as I did. We share that New Orleans love and Tulane background. I was born and raised here. I have always wanted to live by the beach and mountains. Many years ago, I went out to LA and found a place. I talk in my book about sometimes when the universe gives us a dream like I wanted to live in both places but I couldn’t afford it at the time. I started by living in my office and showering at a gym 2 miles away. My office let me do that. It seems absurd but it worked until I was able to have my first place. I stayed at Airbnbs after that and then you’ve got an apartment.

It’s okay to live outside of the box to make your dreams come true progressively. I believe in taking those baby steps towards what you want because then the universe will keep providing. It was about me believing that I could have it. When I look back, I think of the whole journey because I feel like the money was always there. I didn’t know that I could allow myself to live in two wonderful places like, “Is that too much? Is that excessive?” We can live the life of our dreams if we start to believe we deserve it, that we’re worth it, that we’re worthy. For me, it tied into my value and worth.

I have that same dream. I’m happy here in Connecticut. I’m with my family. First of all, I love New Orleans, so I definitely want to come and visit. I’d love to see you there. LA, California is another space for me every time I’m there. You do feel in certain places. The energy is there. What are you doing there? Do you have an apartment there?

I have a residence there. I have an office. I love the energy of Los Angeles. I feel energized by the beach. I’m a very beginner surfer. I receive lots of love from the universe like on the beach and at Lake Shrine, meditating at the Self-Realization Fellowship, the wonderful friends and business connections I’ve made. It’s a great platform for my book to make a lot of contacts and friends that are doing things that are amazing. That’s why I want to be there.

Could you tell me about the Self-Realization Fellowship?

It’s a place that a friend came to me a few years ago and it’s a meditation center in Los Angeles. They’re open now through making a reservation because of the pandemic. Before you could go from 10:00 to 4:00 any day of the week, I’m sure it’ll get back to that. It’s a beautiful lake with flowers and a windmill chapel that Paramahansa Yogananda founded in 1920. There are some of Gandhi’s ashes there. It’s a World Peace Memorial and site for all people of any religion or not to come and meditate. It’s free. It’s amazing.

Where in LA is it exactly?

It’s on Sunset Boulevard at PCH, Pacific Coast Highway.

Are you able to travel during COVID? Have you been staying in New Orleans?

I’ve gone back to Los Angeles a couple of times during 2020. I’ve been in both places still because I love them both. I’ve spent more time in New Orleans since we’ve opened up with relative ease, fortunately. I plan to go to Los Angeles in the summer of 2021.

Wounded Healers: From our belief system, we act in certain ways, or we don’t act in certain ways; this is what we call the “Chiron Effect.”


I am going to be sharing all of your information with our guests. Anything that you want to say at the end about this time of life for everybody? What is your perception of how we’re moving out of COVID? How do you see everyone? What have we gotten out of it?

I would encourage our readers we were talking about whatever authenticity you found within yourself, whatever new practices you developed and created to cope and manage, keep them. Don’t let them go. The time you might’ve spent reading and journaling more introspective endeavors to maintain those in your life and your schedule as things start to open up again. We’re able to be out and about more freely to cherish whatever insights and awareness you’ve learned about yourself and keep furthering them, keep developing them and seeing what may come of it for you that might not have happened if we weren’t in quarantine for a year.

There’s so much that was lost. To acknowledge that, my dad passed away. He was 85 years old. Besides the fact that this was a scary virus, throughout this whole time, I was welcoming the change. It is something that we’re going to look back and there’s going to be so much art that’s coming out of this. For the children that are going through this, it’s an incredible time in our history. I always think that everything is for the best. That’s the way I look at life. I love this conversation. Learning from you, understanding this and it’s something that everyone should look into for themselves because we were always missing certain information to help us move forward in an easier way.

With your work with Akashic Records, the more information we have, the more we can choose what’s going to help us become who we want to be and remembering who we are coming into this life experience. It’s all-important.

It’s learning about yourself, so you could be comfortable in your own skin for self-awareness. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I appreciate being your guest.

It’s such a pleasure.


Important Links


About Lisa Tahir

ZZL S2 5 | Wounded HealersI’ve founded and maintain businesses in the industries of: Healthcare, Art, the Nonprofit sector, and have a US Patent for my invention that allows children and adults in wheelchairs to blow glass from an ADA Compliant modified workbench. I enjoy working with people to become healthier and happier by living to their full potential.

I have Lisa Tahir, LLC for creating custom glass art commissions available through: www.lisatahir.com.

I have a private practice in Psychotherapy with offices in both Los Angeles, CA and New Orleans, LA available through: www.nolatherapy.com.

I am the Founder and President of The “Yes” Foundation, INC. A non-profit that teaches people with disabilities in wheelchairs to cast and blow glass from an ADA Compliant modified workbench that I invented, and have a US Patent for. Find us here at: www.theyesfoundationinc.com.


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Aries, astrology, belief system, Chiron effect, empathy, self-forgiveness

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